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Feedback from TWiki:Support.CannotChangePageTWikiPreferences that adding admin's WikiName to the TWikiAdminGroup is not clear:
Hello, Gentlemen!

Would you be so kind as to put this the TWikiInstallationGuide?? I.e.: turn on authentication, create a user for yourself, then edit the admin group. I was confused by this too.

I'd had to build Perl on the system where I installed TWiki. I spent a few hours thinking I'd made some mistake there, since the present instructions imply that with Twiki is ready for preference changes as is.



-- PTh

Need to see what the end result of Svens implementation on TWiki:Codev.AddTWikiAdminUser

But I agree that the installation guide now ends at an unauthenticated TWiki and that is not the normal case. And then later as an optional step it is hidden how to do it.

I will rewrite this when I return from vacation. Setting this to urgent and allocating it to myself.

-- TWiki:Main.KennethLavrsen - 28 Apr 2007

From TWiki:Codev.FreetownReleaseMeeting2007x06x18

[23:45] <Lavr__> http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/Bugs/Item2108
[23:45] <Lavr__> Documenting how to become an admin user. I am having a hard time
[23:45] <Lavr__> understanding certain things myself and Crawford also had a question on twiki-dev
[23:45] <Lavr__> Never saw an answer to the question. What are exactly the 3 settings in configure
[23:45] <Lavr__> {AdminUserWikiName}, {AdminUserLogin}, and {SuperAdminGroup}
[23:45] <Lavr__> and how do we imagine our newbie installer will understand this
[23:46] <Lavr__> I newbie user will think that setting these is the way to become admin.
[23:46] <Lavr__> But that is not correct.
[23:47] <ArthurClemens> it does look confusing
[23:47] <Lavr__> I wish it was correct but the community has agreed on the sudo login solution. So now it is totally confusing when we also have these 3 settings
[23:48] <sven_> ArthurClemens, is right
[23:48] <sven_> it is not correct
[23:49] <PeterThoeny> i do not understand yet the admin changes...
[23:49] <ArthurClemens> sven_: welcome
[23:49] <sven_> and its currently 1) not finished, 2) a pulling together of some legacies that still need tying together
[23:50] <Lavr__> So what is your plan with these?
[23:50] <sven_> {AdminUserLogin} was added for symetry with efaultUserLogin
[23:51] <sven_> {defaultuserLogin} and to be consistent with what the user would see if they set {AllowLoginName}
[23:51] <sven_> but its currently disabled, as there were some issues with the flow on in the unit tests
[23:51] <sven_>  {SuperAdminGroup} is a group ONLY now
[23:52] <sven_> ie much less confusing, and alot more EXPERT
[23:52] <Lavr__> So is the AdminUserLogin and AdminUserWikiName the names you get when you sudo login?
[23:52] <sven_> my plan is to focus on what i seem to be good at, and what is most urgent - getting the code to work
[23:52] <sven_> consolidating the docco and the settings, comes after that
[23:53] <sven_> yep
[23:53] <Lavr__> Maybe renaming them will help a great deal.
[23:53] <sven_> yes, once the code is done it will help
[23:53] <sven_> right now, it will just cause me to waste another half day 
[23:54] <Lavr__> Do these have to be configurable in the first place?
[00:05] <Lavr__> I will also go to bed. Sven. I will propose some alternative names in the admin doc bug item. Just let the rest of us take the discussion while you code. Once we agree it is no big deal.
[00:05] <Lavr__> And I will still challenge if we need to make everything in life configurable.
So in summary
  • The {AdminUserLogin} and {AdminUserWikiName} the names you get when you sudo login.
  • The {SuperAdminGroup} is now only a group.
  • For reference - The http://develop.twiki.org/~twiki4/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/TWikiAdminGroup topic has a new help text that explains how to become admin.
  • Besides the discussion on the configure setting names - Kenneth Lavrsen still commits to update the installation doc with a section on how to become an admin user.
Especially the {AdminUserLogin} and {AdminUserWikiName} are misleading and will make a newbie admin think that this is the way to become an admin which is not the case Question! Is it necessary that the {AdminUserLogin} and {AdminUserWikiName} are configurable in the first place when they are only used for the sudo login?

If it is needed for some of the user mappings where you do not need to have user topics or have topic defined groups - and may need to use common naming used by other tools TWiki gets bundle installed with - then at least we need to give them different names and different help text

If we let Sven do his code and focus us that - some of the rest of us can brainstorm some better names. I begin with two.

  • Instead of AdminUserLogin
    • TemporaryAdminLogin - makes it more in line with the help text now in the TWikiAdminGroup topic
    • SudoLogin - More geeky but maybe also then making it less likely

  • Instead of AdminUserWikiName
    • TemporaryAdminWikiName - makes it more in line with the help text now in the TWikiAdminGroup topic
    • SudoWikiName - More geeky but maybe also then making it less likely to be misunderstood as a field in which you put your registered WikiName to become admin.
-- KennethLavrsen - 18 Jun 2007 I unassign myself from this one because I do not understand how this works. Sorry.

-- KennethLavrsen - 16 Jul 2007


  • need to add to INSTALL doc
  • nice descriptio in TWiki.spec
  • add howto logout from sudo
  • link to sudo login from the oppsaccessdenied would be right?
  • link to that Codev topic i started

-- TWiki:Main.SvenDowideit - 16 Jul 2007

I don't undestand the technical aspects of this but I'd like to drop a few comments on the proposed wordings:

  • sudo...:
    I've read it a several times in several twiki discussions but I still don't have a clue what it means. It sounds very geeky and linux nerd like

  • temporary...:
    much better. It tells me that theres a preexisting login which i have to to change.
TWiki needs to step back from that whole linux, super nerd like language. -- TWiki:Main.CarloSchulz - 18 Jul 2007

Carlo - you've made it clear that temporary is very wrong. As the feature most definatly is not 'a preexisting login which i have to to change.'

which is why its so damned hard to name frown

-- TWiki:Main.SvenDowideit - 18 Jul 2007

what about -

  • change AdminUserLogin to InternalTWikiAdminLogin
  • change AdminUserWikiName to InternalTWikiAdminWikiName
  • change SuperAdminGroup to TWikiAdminGroup
-- TWiki:Main.SvenDowideit - 19 Jul 2007

Sven I think we should avoid using the word sudo. It is a thing only Unix admins of a certain experience knows. Or Ubunto users.

Windows installers have no clue what this is.

So maybe try and reword the text "This user is also used by the sudo admin login" in configure to something similar of what you used in TWikiAdminGroup.

-- TWiki:Main.KennethLavrsen - 19 Jul 2007

I really like the proposed names.

-- TWiki:Main.KennethLavrsen - 20 Jul 2007

Should we change them??

-- SvenDowideit - 25 Aug 2007

Actually - after you refined the admin feature it seems it works both the configure defined way and with the sudo login.

You can set AdminUserLogin and AdminUserWikiName in configure and then you are an admin when you register yourself and login.

So I am happy to keep them as they are now because their name fits what they do now. They are not just internal login names.

In fact I would propose that we change the docs so that defining the admin login and wikiname in configure is the proposed way to become an admin.

Are there any situations where this will not work and sudo is the only practical way?

-- TWiki:Main.KennethLavrsen - 25 Aug 2007

I did an experiment.

Then I tried to login in the expectation to become an admin. But TWiki will not allow me to login with my password. I now suddenly have to use the configure password. So the {AdminUserLogin}/{AdminUserWikiName} sadly does not work as I had hoped it would work in TemplateLogin. In ApacheLogin KennethLavrsen gets authenticated by Apache using the .htpasswd file and then it works fine.

This feature will become very confusing as it only works sometimes. So I will document the sudo type way of becoming admin only.

And this also means that the settings have to be renamed and the names Sven suggested: InternalTWikiAdminLogin / InternalTWikiAdminWikiName / TWikiAdminGroup should be the way to go.

-- TWiki:Main.KennethLavrsen - 26 Aug 2007

Actually I just started looking at the places the code would have to replace the names. And it includes the installer for extensions. So it is not a good idea to touch this since many installers are already out there.

We will have to document our way out of this confusing situation.

So the action is on me to document this. Which is not easy because it is very confusing.

-- TWiki:Main.KennethLavrsen - 26 Aug 2007

I have done the checkins that I believe closes this one.

-- TWiki:Main.KennethLavrsen - 26 Aug 2007

Cleaned "WaitingFor" field.

-- TWiki:Main.GilmarSantosJr - 10 Aug 2008

Summary Better installation doc for TWikiAdminGroup
ReportedBy TWiki:Main.PeterThoeny

SVN Range Wed, 12 Apr 2006 build 9798
AppliesTo Engine
Component Documentation
Priority Urgent
CurrentState Closed

Checkins TWikirev:14436 TWikirev:14437 TWikirev:14631 TWikirev:14632 TWikirev:14633
TargetRelease minor
ReleasedIn 4.2.0
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Topic revision: r26 - 2008-08-10 - GilmarSantosJr
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